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 MidwestEnduros.com Forums : General Forums : Improving Enduros in the Midwest |
 Topic: C Class early outs |
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FlyinRyan
Admin Group 
Joined: 20 April 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 132 |
   Topic: C Class early outsPosted: 08 September 2006 at 12:14pm |
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I've noticed that in the Midwest the C Classes are only raced by locals and not many people chase points. So I'm trying to get feedback from the C Class riders on why or how to make enduros better for them. The Hill & Gully Riders did early outs for the C and B Class riders and it seemed to work out well. I know other series such as the Black Jack circuit do early outs for the C class and they seem to have a good following in the C Classes. So if you have thoughts / suggestions please post them. |
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mully
Newbie 
Joined: 02 March 2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 7 |
Posted: 08 September 2006 at 1:43pm |
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Ryan, I think the early out idea is good. Gives the beginners a chance to see what an Enduro is without pounding them into silly putty. Seems to me if they have fun, they would want to come back again in the future. Just my two cents.
Mully |
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Guests
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Posted: 11 September 2006 at 9:16am |
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I agree with Mully. Early outs for the C riders are a good idea. Most of the C riders were very happy to get an early out at Marquette. I heard one say he enjoyed the moon rocks. Well, his section only had 3-4 moon rocks....the A/B section had MORE! Another benefit is from a scoring standpoint. The club can begin the scoring process earlier and not have to wait for a C rider to finish the entire event. |
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16Prez
Newbie
Joined: 17 May 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 33 |
Posted: 11 September 2006 at 10:36pm |
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I think a C early out or a section that is A/AA only would be helpful. The alternative is longer resets to keep the C riders from houring out. I have no idea how to do it but the attitude when I started 30 years ago was just to finish. Then, not hour out. Then try to actually do good in your class. But, at all times the idea of riding an enduro was that it was a challenge. A challenge to do better than you had before but still damn near the most fun you could have on a motorcycle. Maybe the cost has gotten higher. It seemed in my early years we had a lot of riders of very mixed ability. A few fast riders: John Martin, Fritz Kadlec, Gabby Hayes, Steve Narel, Duane and Charlie Eller and certainly others but a whole lot of riders that were not that good. Plus, many riders that only rode 1 or 2 enduros and had a variety of bikes. I still think the fun factor is there. Ryan alluded to it in another post about getting together before an enduro and having a sort of potluck dinner. I believe Speedy Pete Laubmeier was lobbying some of the Madison riders to leave early enough to get to Winterset in time for a modest cook out Saturday night. The problem is convincing new riders that enduros are not so complicated and tough that only a handful of riders can go to them. I tend to flinch at the cost, but realistically when the Madison Motorcycle Club debated for hours about raising the price for the Waunakee Enduro, as it was called, from $7 to $8 the cost for bikes was pretty high and people who made "5 figures" -- $10,000 a year -- were considered pretty well off. Ken |
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Smudge
Half Throttle 
Joined: 03 October 2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 91 |
Posted: 16 December 2006 at 4:52pm |
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Early outs for the "C" class is fine by me, but don't early out the +50 class with the C's, sorry but I guess I think I can still keep up with the kids.
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2whlrcr
Full Throttle 
Joined: 02 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 109 |
Posted: 18 December 2006 at 6:43pm |
Yes, Smudge can still keep up with me and I'm only 50. Old guys have more stamina than 18 year olds, everbody knows that, let us old guys go the distance. Nobody sees me limping around for three days after a race anyway. Edited by 2whlrcr |
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ttorbeck
Newbie
Joined: 18 March 2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1 |
Posted: 18 March 2007 at 8:52pm |
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Ryan,
I think I am part of your target demographic for increasing enduro attendance. I enjoy organized trail rides, but I would prefer to add an element of competition to my dirt biking hobby. Since I am slower than most other riders willing to enter a race, the enduro time keeping competition concept is attractive to me.
I have only tried one enduro (2006 Byron/Leaf River). I found the increase in trail difficulty relative to what I had ridden at the 2005 Byron Dual Sport to be much greater than what I expected. Between my own mistakes and getting caught behind some other newbies in the more challenging sections of the first half of the main loop, I was too exhausted to enjoy the rest of the loop even as a trail ride. Ultimately, I was caught by the sweep riders and advised to shortcut back to the pits. Although it was fun for me to enter an organized competition, and to line up on the starting line, the riding itself was not much fun. Tight single track is not my favorite type of terrain, but I was prepared to ride it. What I was not prepared for was tight single track littered with wet logs at various angles to the trail path and many in close proximity to turns. Also, I was prepared to move over for lots of faster riders coming through from behind, but I didn't really foresee being stuck in a spot that blocks the trail without enough remaining strength to move out of the way and subsequently getting bumped, nudged, roosted, and yelled at.
I guess what I'm saying is that I would like to engage in some kind of fun trail riding competition with riders of similar skill level, but the current enduro C class does not facilitate that for me. Reduced C course mileage would make another attempt at enduro competition more attractive to me. It would be even better if I could start near the back row as well. I'm willing to ride slow/challenging sections of trail as long as I'm not doing it in front of a snarling pack of much faster riders. So if tough sections must be maintained in the abbreviated C course to keep up the time keeping challenge for the faster classes, I can deal with that.
It may be that the Family Enduro format is what I'm looking for, but since these are primarily aimed at kids, I have my doubts. I'll be happy to give one a try and see. If I find that I'm still yearning for an intermediate level of competition between the family and current C options, you'll probably hear from me again.
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FlyinRyan
Admin Group
Joined: 20 April 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 132 |
Posted: 19 March 2007 at 3:37pm |
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Glad to here some feedback from a new enduro rider. Sounds like you had a typical first time enduro experience, which is bad and good typically. I think every first timer has the same thought that it was harder then expected. 99% of trail riders don't ever ride true single track trail and really don't ride trail with tons of logs everywhere on it. I would guess that enduro trail won't change but would like to think that we (clubs) can change things up to make it more appealing to the C riders, especially with feedback like yours.
I put on the Leaf River Enduro and over the past few years we had a great finisher rate in all classes. Last year our C class finisher rate went down hill. With the new start area I didn't really pay attention to the length of the loops and ran the C class the entire event. I should have ran them up to the main gas, which was 50 miles long. That would have been plenty for an average C rider. I know the very first section of the day was tight and twisty, but it was only three miles long and then followed by an easy out for the C riders and a long reset at the gas available. Thought I did ok planning there to not kill the C guys. But if you missed the C cutout, then you probably hated the club and thought enduros were the stupidist thing on earth as you would have been riding our hardest section that even makes the AA riders late.
From there it was another short section and then a longer section that probably wore out first timers. But then it was off to the gas stop and a 20 minute reset. That's were the C class should have ended, my mistake and I realized it immediatly when scoring the event. This year the C riders will only ride one loop for scoring, it should be about 40 miles long. If they want they can ride the second for fun but scores will not be kept. I hope that this will help the C riders feel that they had a good day and will try another one during the year.
I'm also trying to get the clubs do do similar things milage wise with the C class. Most C riders would be happy to only have to ride 1/2 the event for scoring. The option should be there for them to ride the rest of the event but I feel most won't want to, if they do then they should ride the B class.
The idea of C riders starting in the back has been brought up and I know some other series down south that do this. I think it's a good idea but as with everything there are two sides to that. If C Riders start in the back then by the time you get to a nasty spot it will be really bad and may cause more frustration. You will also be much closer to having the sweep riders catch you as was in your case. The clubs have to try to get the course cleared in a reasonable time frame so most sweep riders are good riders. If C Riders started up front that would put them at any potential nasty spot before it got nasty and would give them more time to ride before the sweep crews come. I'm sure there's a comprise somewhere, like maybe never have C riders before minute 30 so that they are behind the AA riders?
As for the Family events I think they are great for kids and first timers. While it may be a little boring for someone that has ridden offroad but not raced, they will teach you timekeeping and give you some more insight on what an enduro is. I would try the Grand Kankakee Trails riders one in Roselawn, IN in April. It's a good one and last year they did a class before the event talking about timekeeping, checks, etc that was given by Jeff Fredette.
One last rambling. If you rode the 2005 Dual Sport then you rode the 2006 Enduro second loop. So if you finished the first loop of the 2006 enduro then you have ridden all the trails we have.
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Steve St.Lauren
Newbie
Joined: 17 November 2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 1 |
Posted: 17 November 2007 at 8:39pm |
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Just found the forum here and thought I'd put in my $.02. First a little background on me to put things in perspective. I road raced back in the late 80's and did a little (very little) off roading back then to train for that - that was in California so VERY different terrain. A friend had been trying to convince me to trail ride for years (we rode street bikes together) and I told him he was nuts riding through trees, etc. In January 2006 I traded for a couple play bikes to ride in the yard and had so much fun that I bought a CR250 to trail ride. I fell in with a group of riders that range from ex national AA riders on down so I got exposed to some of the toughest public trails we have here in Michigan.
This year I decided to try enduro's and was planning on running the whole series but events conspired against me and the Harrison national was the first one I could enter. With the dusty conditions and the deep rut that was formed by minute 43 it was very rough. I made it to the 2nd gas stop which was 87 miles in for me (I got lost in one of the fields and circled a number of times adding mileage) when I couldn't continue any more and basically collapsed. I still had a great time though (I have been told that I'm a little off in the head before). After that I ran the Tree Topper where we all ran the full course and when we finished I thought "is that it - can we ride more?". I had a great time but after getting beat up so bad at the national it didn't seem so bad. Mud Dobbers was the next one and the C class ended early. I still felt fine at the end of the C section so I went ahead and rode the rest of the course. I ran out of gas in the 2nd to last woods section but found gas from a farmer after pushing for about a mile, then I fouled a plug and had to change it, and I still finished the ride. At the finish I was down 81 minutes (which of course didn't count because the C section was over when I ran out of gas). Those last sections were the most fun of the event IMO. I was pretty tired after all the pushing, etc but still had a blast Last was Turkey Creek (day 2 only). This one I missed the turnoff and ended up on the A section which took a lot out of me and I did a lot worse after that but had fun on the A section even though it was definitely above my ability level. So there's my first 4 enduros as a newbie enduro rider in his first season and having trail ridden for a year and a half. My opinion is I guess it depends on what the goal for the C class is. If it's supposed to be there for guys to ride the event trail without competing then having a shorter course for the C guys makes sense. If it's supposed to be a training ground for the B class then I think they should run the full course. At the first enduro I was getting passed by EVERYONE. Each event after that I was doing better and was actually passing quite a few guys at the last event. I fully expected to have a very hard time and expected very hard conditions - I would have been disappointed if it hadn't have been that way. My goal was to finish an event by the end of my first season. I didn't expect to finish the first event although I was trying to. I don't know if Harrison was typical of nationals but maybe at the national level a shorter C course would make sense. Maybe for guys that just want to try it out and ride the event trail there could be a non scoring class run after all the competing riders take off. Then there could be a number of pre-planned exit points with directions back to the start so they could cut out at any time. For myself I would prefer to run the full course so that I can build my stamina in preparation for running the B class when I get there. I'm looking at my time in the C class as training ground for the B class (I HIGHLY doubt I'll ever get out of the B class as I can't afford to take the risks necessary to make that happen). |
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